Meta Month of March: Ep Discussion: The Stolen Earth/Journey's End

[trobadora]

We're on the last two episodes of our Doctor/Jack rewatch, and here is Torchwood. Here is Team Torchwood on Doctor Who. Here is the leader of Torchwood Three, being character-assassinated on Doctor Who.

Well, all right, that's a bit harsh, isn't it? Still, consider: There's nothing I can do. I'm sorry - we're dead. Before the first Dalek has even arrived on Earth, Jack's already given up. He's also convinced Martha is dead as soon as she uses Project Indigo, and when there's an incoming transmission he doesn't even want to listen: The whole world's crying out. Just leave it.

What's happened to our hero? When did he become a fatalist? You tell me, because this isn't the Jack I know. He just throws in the towel until the Doctor turns up after all.

Granted, Sarah Jane is suffering from the same sudden passivity. And Harriet Jones's philosophy has become paradoxical: I stand by my actions to this day because I knew that one day the Earth would be in danger and the Doctor would fail to appear - but unlike before, now what she does isn't look for a Doctor-less solution, but pins everything on getting the Doctor there.

And then the Doctor does turn up, and Jack shouts, Where the hell have you been? As if he expected him. Granted, this is before Children of Earth, but really, after Owen, after Tosh? As if it was the Doctor's job to save the Earth, not Jack's own (self-appointed) task.

Still, once the Doctor's in the picture, Jack immediately becomes Jack again, regaining his energy, springing into action. And action it is, for the most part, during these two episodes - there's not much by way of meaningful character interaction between Jack and the Doctor.

The Doctor does appear to have mellowed quite a bit on Torchwood, though - far from the contemptuous, accusing tone he used the last time this came up, he sounds quite fond when he says, That must be Torchwood. The Doctor and Jack seem to have resolved their issues; there's no noticeable conflict left between them. They work together during the crisis, smoothly as ever, and when it's all done with, Jack walks out of the TARDIS without looking back. He's got his own life, his own people to go back to, and this time there's not even a question about it any more. (He's with Martha and Mickey at the end, but his relationship with Ianto and Gwen is established early on. I love that bit where Jack hears the Daleks and just pulls Ianto and Gwen close and kisses both their heads. And unlike last time, he didn't just run towards the Doctor: I'll come back. I'm coming back, he promises, not knowing that Daleks are already converging on the Hub.

What do you think? A few points to conider:

• There's nothing I can do. I'm sorry - we're dead. What do you think about this? I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with these two sentences - they establish Jack as a hero in his own right ("nothing I can do", not "nothing we can do" - Jack's the one expected to save the day for Torchwood) and undermine him at the same time, having him give up without even trying, as if Daleks had never been defeated before.


• And who's he? - Captain Jack. Don't - just don't. Now the Doctor's stopping Donna rather than Jack from flirting! In fact, there is a distinctive lack of Jack flirting in these episodes. He doesn't even hug Donna when she asks! What do you think is going on there?


• He's dying, and you know what happens next. Jack of course knows about regeneration, but the way he acts here makes it sound as if he'd seen a regeneration happen already. Do you think he has? Or has he just heard stories?


• Once again we get Doctor/Jack/Rose confronting the Daleks, with a nice call-back to the last time they did this, even. But there's no real reunion at all between Jack and Rose, and when Jack gets himself killed in order to escape (complete with secret wink at the Doctor) she clearly doesn't know what's happened to him. Do you think they ever told her, before the Doctor shipped her off back to the parallel world with her consolation prize?


• How much of a point does Davros have about the Doctor's hypocrisy, fashioning people into weapons while complaining about guns? Much like RTD, maybe, conveniently disposing the Daleks while not allowing his hero to take responsibility for it, instead displacing it onto his double. - Still, one thing the final episode does well, in my opinion, is show the the difference between the Doctor who could blow up all Daleks, and the one who couldn't. The difference between the man who ended the Time War and the man who'd try to save even Davros.


• Who else is getting annoyed at the Doctor constantly disabling Jack's vortex manipulator? Especially since it's only the teleport this time, not even time travel. Considering how much alien and future-tech is cluttered all over the planet, considering UNIT reverse-engineered a teleport by themselves - WTF is going on in the Doctor's brain? Is there any explanation for this short of "the writers didn't want Jack to have a working vortex manipulator on Torchwood"?


• Three Doctors. - I can't tell you what I'm thinking right now. - Tell me honestly, now, who wasn't thinking that? :D

Comments

[navaan]

I always have very split feelings when it comes to this. There are fun moments and, of course, more screen time for my favourite characters is a plus, but the writing feels rather self indulgent at times and with so many characters it's always a balancing act to give all of them the attention they deserve and keep them in character along the way. With RTD he is also bringing the three series he had been writing at the time together and that must have been fun for him, but like I alread said, it also leads to a slight feel of self indulgence in the writing.

There is also a lack of interaction between Rose and Jack and I had hoped for that to happen. After all she is the one that made him immortal by accident and now they are both Torchwood in their own worlds. I had hoped for them to realize that they had been forced to take a similar paths, fighting the Doctor's fight without the Doctor.

There's nothing I can do. I'm sorry - we're dead. I always get annoyed at this without fail. Maybe Jack has some left over trauma from being killed by Daleks before he wakes up immortal? I try to tell myself this is more about the fact that he sees no way to protect Ianto and Gwen and not about him giving up.

How much of a point does Davros have about the Doctor's hypocrisy, fashioning people into weapons while complaining about guns? Much like RTD, maybe, conveniently disposing the Daleks while not allowing his hero to take responsibility for it, instead displacing it onto his double.

I do think the Doctor makes unfortunate choices at every turn and has always done so - at least from time to time. But then his companions make their own choices, too, so what becomes of them is not the Doctor fashioning them into weapons exactly. He is the one who shows them the world beyond theirs and also shows them his own way of meddling with disaster whereever they go. I don't think he wants to change them in that way, not when he first takes them along to have a companion to dazzle. It's easy to forget what some of it does to them, too.

Still, one thing the final episode does well, in my opinion, is show the the difference between the Doctor who could blow up all Daleks, and the one who couldn't. The difference between the man who ended the Time War and the man who'd try to save even Davros.

I agree. I also think it a nice way to show how the Doctor is changing over time and how his companions and the adventures he has with them shape him in turn. It's not only him shaping his companions.

Who else is getting annoyed at the Doctor constantly disabling Jack's vortex manipulator? Especially since it's only the teleport this time, not even time travel. Considering how much alien and future-tech is cluttered all over the planet, considering UNIT reverse-engineered a teleport by themselves - WTF is going on in the Doctor's brain? Is there any explanation for this short of "the writers didn't want Jack to have a working vortex manipulator on Torchwood"?

Actually I never had any explanation for this in this episode beyond the "Torchwood"/barely disguised plot device explanation. It doesn't make sense here at all! It's really, really annoying!

[trobadora]

Yeah, I agree, there are so many characters in there, and they don't really get the attention they deserve. While I love the way everyone ends up working together, and the idea of bringing the companions together like this, I'm a bit sad they didn't do more (and better) with the concept.

Especially with Rose. I mean, I'm not a huge Rose fan, but this just does her no justice at all. Donna's entire season was overshadowed by the promised return of Rose - and then she does return, and it's for this? So she can briefly be jealous of Martha, and briefly hug the Doctor, and then be shunted off right back to her parallel world with a Doctor substitute? They didn't even bother to show her interacting with Ten2 until Ten made the unilateral decision to take her back. And as you say, there's also the fact that she and Jack used to be quite close is completely ignored, and they don't get any interaction at all. Bah.

Maybe Jack has some left over trauma from being killed by Daleks before he wakes up immortal?

I'd be more willing to credit this if Sarah Jane weren't reacting exactly the same way. It's so very overdramatic from people who really should know better.

But then his companions make their own choices, too, so what becomes of them is not the Doctor fashioning them into weapons exactly.

Yes! The Doctor certainly has his part in shaping what his companions become, but Davros, here, just like the Doctor himself, simply ignores that they're people who make their own choices, not just the Doctor's puppets.

Actually I never had any explanation for this in this episode beyond the "Torchwood"/barely disguised plot device explanation. It doesn't make sense here at all! It's really, really annoying!

Yeah, I mean, if you have to keep doing it at least give us some sort of explanation for why! *headdesk*

[navaan]

I always like companions teaming up or getting to know each other, but the getting to know each other part is what is missing here.

Back when I watched it for the first time the whole buit up for the return of Rose was so exciting and then it didn't quite deliver. Something is missing. And I agree that there was no built up for her an TenII either. The first time they really talk is seconds before they are shipped up together. So I do agree that it does feel a little like he is her consolation price, even if I want to interpret it differently. It's just rushed.

I'd be more willing to credit this if Sarah Jane weren't reacting exactly the same way. It's so very overdramatic from people who really should know better.

Well I can see why Sarah Jane would be a little traumatized by Daleks, too. :P But it is overdramatic and both she and Jack should at least know they can try to fight them.

Yeah, I mean, if you have to keep doing it at least give us some sort of explanation for why! *headdesk* <7i>

I don't even see why the Doctor had to be used to diable it at all. It could just as well burned out and malfunctioned and he would have been all set to go back to Torchwood.

[trobadora]

It's just rushed.

Yeah, and they could have done so much better. Still bitter about that.

I don't even see why the Doctor had to be used to diable it at all. It could just as well burned out and malfunctioned and he would have been all set to go back to Torchwood.

This! Hell, it was burnt out at the beginning of Utopia until the Doctor fixed it - and that was a much better state of affairs than the Doctor deliberately breaking it because reasons. *grumbles*