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wintercompanion2012-03-21 08:46 pm
trobadora) wrote in wintercompanion2012-03-21 08:46 pm
Entry tags:
Meta Month of March: Ep Discussion: Utopia
Doctor. - Captain.
And here we are, almost two years exactly after the events on the Game Station, finally getting some answers. Of course Jack has to work for his answers quite hard, and the Doctor is working equally hard to avoid him. So we start out with Jack chasing the Doctor, and the Doctor deliberately turning away as soon as he sees him. I still remember the shock of that scene, the first time I saw it.
The Doctor's at his most callous through the first part of this ep. You abandoned me. - Did I? Busy life, moving on. And there's an edge to the banter between them that we'd never quite seen before that point. The Doctor keeps censoring Jack (Oh, don't start.), and Jack keeps being unimpressed. The Doctor is almost hostile, and Jack doesn't hold back on the accusations. And the Doctor can't seem to make up his mind whether he wants to run away from Jack again and pretend they're nothing to each other now, or to fall back into old patterns. Jack first calls him on it (He's not my responsibility. - And I am? That makes a change.), but increasingly goes along with it.
And yet, even with all that, Jack still finds himself enjoying the adventure: Oh, I missed this. Jack's had his share of adventures on his own, in all those years in between, but he was stuck on the slow path. It's a different thing, being dropped into a strange adventure on a strange planet.
And for a moment, despite the danger, despite the tensions, everything seems good. The Doctor is happy to find humans surviving: End of the universe and here you are. Indomitable, that's the word! Indomitable! Jack casually flirts with some guy in the corridor, just like he did with Martha, and then Chantho. There's futuretech to geek out over, and even at the end of the universe there's still the dream of Utopia. And Jack and the Doctor fall back into an almost comfortable pattern (You're supposed to say sorry. - Oh, yes. Sorry.)
Of course things go wrong, and then Jack is dead again, and the Doctor's just watching, with that weird expression on his face. And we know we're approaching that crucial moment, the one we've been waiting for.
How long have you known? - Ever since I ran away from you.
It's no secret that this is the scene that made me into a Doctor/Jack shipper. I liked the pairing before that, but this is what turned it into an obsession. This is what I come back to again and again, all the layers of it, all the possible implications. The intimacy of that conversation, despite the barriers. This scene, and the answers we get, and the things that redefine both characters and the way we relate to them.
What do you think? Do you remember watching Utopia for the first time? Were you shocked to discover the Doctor knew exactly what had happened to Jack, and left him behind deliberately? Or was it what you expected?
It's not easy just looking at you, Jack, cause you're wrong. How much do you think Jack's fact-ness truly affects the Doctor, and how much is just avoidance? What does Jack being a fact really mean? (Admittedly I've written approximately ten million fics exploring that myself!) Is Jack right - is the Doctor really just prejudiced? Why do you think the Doctor really ran away? The Doctor, of course, leaves people and places behind all the time. But running from someone? That's something else.
Did Jack truly have a death wish, before this?
The dynamic between Ten and Jack is quite different than it was between Nine and Jack. How much of that is due to what happened on the Game Station, and how much of it is just the different personality of Ten?
And also, Jack recognises the Doctor immediately (The Police Box kinda gives it away.) - just how much does he know about Regeneration at this point? Did he know before the Doctor abandoned him? (Rose certainly didn't.) When/how did he find out?
And here we are, almost two years exactly after the events on the Game Station, finally getting some answers. Of course Jack has to work for his answers quite hard, and the Doctor is working equally hard to avoid him. So we start out with Jack chasing the Doctor, and the Doctor deliberately turning away as soon as he sees him. I still remember the shock of that scene, the first time I saw it.
The Doctor's at his most callous through the first part of this ep. You abandoned me. - Did I? Busy life, moving on. And there's an edge to the banter between them that we'd never quite seen before that point. The Doctor keeps censoring Jack (Oh, don't start.), and Jack keeps being unimpressed. The Doctor is almost hostile, and Jack doesn't hold back on the accusations. And the Doctor can't seem to make up his mind whether he wants to run away from Jack again and pretend they're nothing to each other now, or to fall back into old patterns. Jack first calls him on it (He's not my responsibility. - And I am? That makes a change.), but increasingly goes along with it.
And yet, even with all that, Jack still finds himself enjoying the adventure: Oh, I missed this. Jack's had his share of adventures on his own, in all those years in between, but he was stuck on the slow path. It's a different thing, being dropped into a strange adventure on a strange planet.
And for a moment, despite the danger, despite the tensions, everything seems good. The Doctor is happy to find humans surviving: End of the universe and here you are. Indomitable, that's the word! Indomitable! Jack casually flirts with some guy in the corridor, just like he did with Martha, and then Chantho. There's futuretech to geek out over, and even at the end of the universe there's still the dream of Utopia. And Jack and the Doctor fall back into an almost comfortable pattern (You're supposed to say sorry. - Oh, yes. Sorry.)
Of course things go wrong, and then Jack is dead again, and the Doctor's just watching, with that weird expression on his face. And we know we're approaching that crucial moment, the one we've been waiting for.
How long have you known? - Ever since I ran away from you.
It's no secret that this is the scene that made me into a Doctor/Jack shipper. I liked the pairing before that, but this is what turned it into an obsession. This is what I come back to again and again, all the layers of it, all the possible implications. The intimacy of that conversation, despite the barriers. This scene, and the answers we get, and the things that redefine both characters and the way we relate to them.
What do you think? Do you remember watching Utopia for the first time? Were you shocked to discover the Doctor knew exactly what had happened to Jack, and left him behind deliberately? Or was it what you expected?
It's not easy just looking at you, Jack, cause you're wrong. How much do you think Jack's fact-ness truly affects the Doctor, and how much is just avoidance? What does Jack being a fact really mean? (Admittedly I've written approximately ten million fics exploring that myself!) Is Jack right - is the Doctor really just prejudiced? Why do you think the Doctor really ran away? The Doctor, of course, leaves people and places behind all the time. But running from someone? That's something else.
Did Jack truly have a death wish, before this?
The dynamic between Ten and Jack is quite different than it was between Nine and Jack. How much of that is due to what happened on the Game Station, and how much of it is just the different personality of Ten?
And also, Jack recognises the Doctor immediately (The Police Box kinda gives it away.) - just how much does he know about Regeneration at this point? Did he know before the Doctor abandoned him? (Rose certainly didn't.) When/how did he find out?
no subject
This is one of my top ten episodes of new Who. I really dislike the Doctor in this one because of the way he treats Jack from the 'busy' and 'moving on' comments all the way through even to the comment about Jack only finding happiness with himself. He hears all that Jack has been through, all his deaths and still there isn't enough sympathy for the man who has literally died for him and will go on dying for him and the rest of the human race over and over and over again, with every death causing him to be dragged back over broken glass.
It's quite a heavy episode for all its moments of fun - my favourite being when Jack strips off his shirt to the vest and the Doctor wonders why - Jack simply wants to look good. And then there's the running with Jack always that bit behind. I also like Martha's attitude about Rose, perfect and blonde. I wish they hadn't let her fancy the Doctor because otherwise she's quite fiesty and confident.
Lastly there's the Master. Derek Jacobi is fun but I was a bit disappointed with John Simm.
Overall there are so many great scenes and we witness the beginning of the relationship between 10 and Jack. I don't think that 10 ever really understands Jack except when he discovers that he may be the Face of Boe and then perhaps his appreciation of Jack is realised. Like so many others Jack is willing to do anything for the Doctor, including leaving his team in the lurch, hoping that the Doctor will cure him and eplain why he was left behind. For me the Doctor's explanation isn't good enough and it never will be. Already a hero, Jack became my hero and obsession after this.
no subject
I don't dislike the Doctor here as much as you do, but the episode definitely shows off his unpleasant side very clearly. The redeeming part, for me, is that it's meant to be unpleasant, and that a character like the Doctor really needs aspects like that to not turn into a complete Mary Sue. He's never been the sparkly-white hero, and he's not meant to be.
And yes, he's absolutely appalling towards Jack, but I suppose how much you hold it against him depends on why you think he did it.
I don't think he lacks sympathy for Jack, actually, and the conversation through the door of the radiation room shows it clearly enough to me. He doesn't really want to feel it because he has no clue whatsoever how to deal with it, but I do think they come to an understanding there at that point.
I also like Martha's attitude about Rose, perfect and blonde. I wish they hadn't let her fancy the Doctor because otherwise she's quite fiesty and confident.
Utterly agreed there. I like the use of Rose in this ep, but in general I wish they'd have let her be after she left, and hadn't overshadowed Martha's tenure with all the Rose comparisons, and Donna's with Rose's continued appearances. *sighs*
I don't think that 10 ever really understands Jack except when he discovers that he may be the Face of Boe and then perhaps his appreciation of Jack is realised.
Really? I never quite know how much Ten understands Jack; I keep changing my mind over it. But I didn't think the Face of Boe thing mattered all that much, in the end ... (Maybe that's just because I didn't like it, though. Or rather, HATE IT would be the better term. *g*)
For me the Doctor's explanation isn't good enough and it never will be.
It was for me - I think it may have been the perfect explanation for me, because years after the fact I'm still obsessing over what it all means. *g* But I'm curious - what kind of explanation would you have liked?
no subject
I wish the Doctor had at some point apologised for leaving Jack - he doesn't ever. And although I love the scene with Alonso, and I laughed out loud knowing RTD had probably done that on purpose, I do think once again that the Doctor wasn't thinking about Jack's love for him and that some time with him would have been good. Jack goes through hell on the Valiant and again there's no acknowledgement of his sacrifice, except that he says that Jack could stay. Jack has finally out grown his crush and found another love in Ianto and Torchwood.
I know it's going on but another example of the Doctor's callousness is when Jack pleads that he's set up Torchwood to honour him. Perhaps I am a little over the top in this but Jack is totally innocent in all this. He didn't make himself immortal and the Doctor owes him something but he just seems to take Jack's loyalty for granted.
I will admit that I am more of a 9 fan than 10.
no subject
Yes, me too. But that's Ten for you, he's constitutionally incapable of that. *sighs* I like Ten rather a lot, but only if it's acknowledged that he's completely fucked up in a very different way than Nine was. It's all turned inward and, well, it's no surprise, really, that he nearly self-destructs in the end.
no subject