Meta Month of March: Ep Discussion: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances

[wojelah.livejournal.com]

Captain Jack Harkness. 133 Squadron, Royal Air Force. American volunteer.

And so we meet Jack Harkness. Actually, the first time we meet Jack Harkness, he's complimenting someone's bottom. Multiple someones, come to think of it.

Truthfully, we haven't known Nine all that long at that point, either - we don't have nearly as clear an idea of what exactly happened to him. Mostly, we know there was a war, and they lost. We know he's brusque and funny and closed and damaged, and that he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

Enter Jack, the quintessential trickster. He's a conman. The quintessential Fool, in many respects. He's a pretty face and a great smile, a glib tongue and a lot of Spock. He knows his assets, and he doesn't mind using them. Underneath it all, there's something hard and dangerous - just because you can see teeth doesn't mean it's a grin. And it's hard to laugh when, at bottom, you hate what you've become. I was conning you - that's what I am, I'm a con man.

No lie, I think that's where I first fell for Jack. I wonder if the Doctor doesn't hear it, too. Because while Nine's not impressed - the banana groves at Villengard, anyone? - and he sure as hell doesn't trust Jack - he doesn't write him off, either. More, Jack still manages to slip in under Nine's guard and set him off balance. Consider the sonic screwdriver conversation. Consider further the look on Nine's face when Jack admits to two missing years of memories. And consider the genuine amusement at Jack Harkness, flexible, 51st century flirt.

I'm still not sure where or what, exactly, it is, that lets the Doctor say Do what you've got to do, and trust that Jack's going to do the right thing. I'm not sure either he or Jack are either. I'm not entirely sure I think the Doctor didn't forget about Jack, just briefly, until Rose reminded him. But I think that's part of what I love about these introductory episodes. It's not a meeting of the minds - they're very different, and they're both a little (a LOT) banged up around the edges. Still - there's some sort of recognition, and a dawning sense of respect, amidst the wariness. By the time we move to Boom Town, that dynamic's quite different, and I think that's why I adore post-The Doctor Dances fic as much as I do. There's a bridge to cross at the end of these eps, and I want to know how we get there.

What do you think? Am I giving either of them too much credit? Does Rose act as the bridge between the two? (Me, I am of two minds on this.) What do you think of these eps as Jack's debut? What do you make of the Doctor's reactions? Does Jack earn "companion" status later, after these eps, or do you think the Doctor's made up his mind when he first brings Jack on board?

Comments

[trobadora]

I only have a minute - will comment properly later, but before I forget what I wanted to say:

And consider the genuine amusement at Jack Harkness, flexible, 51st century flirt.

That scene where he explains to Rose about humanity and "dancing"? That looks like sheer delight to me. In a way, it's the same thing Jack and Ten talk about later, in Utopia - "End of the universe and here you are. Indomitable!", and "this lot, you see them out here surviving ... and that’s fantastic". What I mean is, Jack is so very vividly alive, and in that he embodies the very thing the Doctor admires about humans. I think that's definitely part of what draws him, con man or no.

[iolo1234.livejournal.com]

I fell in love with Jack from the moment he said 'excellent bottom'. I wasn't a particularly big JB fan then but being a lover of musicals and LIve and Kicking I knew of him. Even though JB prefers being with DT I think he's better with CE. I loved the flirting in Boom Town - such an under-rated episode in my opinion.
In this he starts as a conman but is redeemed by the Doctor. I wonder did anyone notice the parallel conversation of Jack to the Doctor - I was a coward - wish I hadn't met you etc in Parting of the Ways to Rex saying almost exactly the same to Jack about wishing he'd never met him in the last ep of MD.
One of my favourite bits is when the Doctor explains to Rose about 51st century dancing and also the chat with the computer when he thinks he's going to die - so out there to talk about sleeping with both your executioners in DW.
For me Jack was such a break through character for DW and he set the tone for more gay characters and references. Long live RTD and SM and the gay agenda and long live Jack Harkness and his swishy coat.

[trobadora]

Okay, a proper comment now!

No lie, I think that's where I first fell for Jack.

I wish I could remember when I fell for Jack, but I marathoned the season, and my first watch all sort of blurs together. This is a great moment, though - you're absolutely right about the self-loathing under the surface, and that's when you know there really is more to him.

I don't know if you remember the discussion from way back when about how Jack is constructed in these episodes - I think it was legionseagle who pointed out that while many American viewers took him for a stereotypical pretty soldier hero, for the British (or European) eye he was rather the opposite. The first impression we got of him was "smarmy American" and "fake", someone not to be trusted - and the surprise twist was that he's actually a good guy underneath. Okay, it's not nearly as blatant as that, but those undercurrents are definitely there. And either way, he's so much more than he initially seems.

Because while Nine's not impressed - the banana groves at Villengard, anyone? - and he sure as hell doesn't trust Jack - he doesn't write him off, either. More, Jack still manages to slip in under Nine's guard and set him off balance.

I think the Doctor found himself liking Jack despite himself - he thought he shouldn't, but he did.

I'm still not sure where or what, exactly, it is, that lets the Doctor say Do what you've got to do, and trust that Jack's going to do the right thing.

He's clearly got Jack's measure by that point, though when exactly he reached that point I don't know either. It's a gradual process, probably - all the small revelations over the course of the ep adding up to this.

I'm not entirely sure I think the Doctor didn't forget about Jack, just briefly, until Rose reminded him.

This is the part I can never decide about. Watching the scene, it does look like he completely forgot Jack just sacrificed himself - and doesn't care, out of sight, out of mind. Only that doesn't quite gel with the Doctor's characterisation either, and at any rate it wouldn't have truly been "everybody lives" if someone had died, no matter who. So it remains a strange, uncomfortable, ambiguous moment that I never know what to do with. If anyone has a theory, I'd love to hear it!

Still - there's some sort of recognition, and a dawning sense of respect, amidst the wariness. By the time we move to Boom Town, that dynamic's quite different, and I think that's why I adore post-The Doctor Dances fic as much as I do. There's a bridge to cross at the end of these eps, and I want to know how we get there.

Yes! I won't go into Boom Town now - that's for the next discussion - but that missing period between episodes is so fascinating. You could argue equally well that they're already nearly there, or that they still have a lot of territory to cross, but either way, there's a threshold crossed somewhere in between, and I can never get enough of that.

(continued in next comment)

[magic-7-words.livejournal.com]

I think what made me first fall for Jack was the scene in which he rescued Rose from the barrage balloon. As Rose says, "that's up there with flossing." So he's the dashing hero coming to the rescue, which is great, and he has a sense of humor, which is great. And then Rose faints in his arms, which made me a little nervous when I saw it, because all we know about Jack at this point is that a) he finds Rose sexually attractive, and b) he's not who he pretends to be. And remember, the last time Rose fainted in a stranger's arms (the undertaker in "The Unquiet Dead") she later accused him of feeling her up. But Jack's a perfect gentleman even when nobody's watching, which basically characterized him in my mind as someone who would come through when it really counted.

I know there's precedent for Nine forgetting people (like Mickey in the first episode), but I have difficulty believing the Doctor could forget about Jack so thoroughly that he could proclaim "Everybody lives!" without running a quick mental tally and coming up one short. My theory is that when he tells Jack "Get rid of the bomb as safely as you can," he genuinely doesn't put it together that he's sending Jack to his death. Danger, yes. Certain death, no. So it's only when Rose asks "Why did he say goodbye?" that the Doctor realizes his rescue services are required.

As for the companion status question, I'm going to hedge and say that yes, the Doctor invited him on board and that qualifies him as a companion, but obviously there's a long way to go between that and the finishing-each-other's-sentences dynamic we see in "Boom Town."

[wendymr.livejournal.com]

Returning to an aspect of the Nine and Jack dynamic I mentioned in my reply t trobadora above: while I won't anticipate later episodes, in which Jack clearly knows what the Doctor is, what do we think Jack thought of the Doctor in these two episodes? We've had a lot of discussion about what the Doctor thought of Jack, but all Jack knows about the Doctor is:

1: he thinks he's a Time Agent
2: he then thinks he's a 'freelance', whatever that means
3: he makes fun of the Doctor's inadequate sonic device, but then he's also seen the Doctor pick up psychic signals and insult their 'tiny human brains', and he's heard Rose comment that the Doctor insults other species while shaving (can't remember the specific line)
4: the Doctor clearly knows a lot about temporal theory and time-ships, given his scathing comments about how long it took Jack to adjust the settings on his ship so that he could rescue the two of them, and that he recognises it as a Chula ship and knows about the nanogenes
5: and then, of course, at the end of the episode he sees inside the TARDIS and realises that it's bigger on the inside.

So, at the end of the episode, what do we think Jack is thinking about the Doctor? And - other than having felt embarrassed/humbled over his mistake with the ambulance, and grateful for having his life saved - does he at this point even like the Doctor?

[yamx]

One of my favorite moments in those eps is when the Doctor figures out what's been going on with the nanogenes and explains it, and Jack finally realizes that this whole thing is indeed his fault. That look on his face, and his voice... Up to then, he seemed unwilling to take responsibility for his screw-up, but that's the moment you can see he *does* feel responsible--he just really hadn't thought his actions could have caused this. (Which makes his willingness to help Rose and the Doctor get into the bombsite even more remarkable.)

Also awesome and, of course, hilarious, is the infamous screwdriver/blaster one-upmanship conversation. "Well, I've got a banana, and in a pinch you could put up some shelves. Wow, the assets conversation went in a flash, didn't it?" *giggles*

[scifiangel.livejournal.com]

There have been so many wonderful observations so far, even though I haven't had the time to read all of them. I wanted to get my thoughts down before they became too influenced.

I fell in love with Jack almost immediately, even before I was in love with the Doctor (Nine). I had watched Doctor Who back in the late 70's and early 80's with the Fourth Doctor. Being an American we didn't get the episodes on a regular basis. I liked the show, but I was never in love with it. When Jack stepped onto the scene I fell in love with not only him, but the show as well.

My first impression of Jack was how much he reminded me of Han Solo from Star Wars. The handsome and charming rogue with the heart of gold. I so loved his conversation with Nine about "sonic" blaster vs. "sonic" screwdriver. "Who looks at a screwdriver and think ooowe this could be more sonic?" And then later when Nine wants a list of assets, "Well I have a banana and in a pinch you can put up some shelves." He made me laugh and it showed that he can hold his own against the Doctor.

The conversation about his memories being stolen grabbed my heart. I though how much alike he was to the Doctor (solders that had been hurt.) When Jack said that the Doctor may have good reason not to trust him, I could tell Jack was almost afraid to find out what his memories were. Afraid he had done something terrible. Near the end of The Doctor Dances when Jack realizes that it is all his fault, you can see the anguish in his face. He turns around and puts his head in his hand. I was completely in love with him at that moment. I just wanted to run over and hug him.

His death conversation with his computer was so poignant. It's said you never truly know someone until you see how they handle death. How he handled it made me love him even more. Jack is definitely "Bigger on the Inside."